Curse

UberRusty · Sep 05, 2005, 01:36 AM // 01:36

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Wild Blow isn't even a counter to TF; oh noes, they can recast it in 5 seconds and you blew all your adrenaline doing it. Great tactic. Why do that when you can just run from the Warrior for the 5 seconds his TF locked his Sprint out? Stupid, stupid stupid!

You do realise I was being sarcastic right?

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Posting in all caps makes you seem like you know what you're talking about when it's pretty obvious your limited intelligence is paired with an overly high self esteem

As is a big ego.

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The original poster is a W/R. Why would you post stupidity like R/Ws? Hamstring is a lousy substitute for the sprint your newbie TF locks you out of anyway. Stop being a pussy and run Frenzy.

"Stop being a pussy and run Frenzy." <-- I like that. But being a pussy, wins the game. And it's the game we're playing. I already said I am of the Tiger's Fury > Frenzy mentality. And it's been argued so many times that I don't wish to waste time on such an overly sized ego forumer such as you. And why would I post "stupidity such as R/Ws?" Maybe because I'm offering advice, as he is new to the game he may not have played a R/W? And maybe, if he runs R/W he can afford to run Tiger's Fury?

Have a cookie.

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Instead of calling puppetmaster a n00b, why don't you actually refute what he is saying. Right now he is stating why he thinks W/Mo's are bad (rightfully so), and all you are doing is calling him a n00b comp. arena runner.

W/Mos are not bad. That's like saying Healers are bad. People who think W/Mos are bad are because they CHOOSE bad W/Mos. Why don't you go, get a bunch of PvP buddies, and ask one of them to W/Mo. I'm sure you'll have a great time.

And what kind of "Experienced Player" would make a statement such as; Swords do zero damage.

thekolman · Sep 05, 2005, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Wow, so much for it being improper to flame people. There is just so much irony in that post, rusty, I don't really think I have to explain. This thread is probably gonna be closed soon since it has downgraded back to a TF vs. frenzy debate, but it was very entertaining while it lasted!

UberRusty · Sep 05, 2005, 01:45 AM // 01:45

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This thread is probably gonna be closed soon since it has downgraded back to a TF vs. frenzy debate, but it was very entertaining while it lasted!

Don't think it didn't entertain me.

thekolman · Sep 05, 2005, 01:54 AM // 01:54

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Originally Posted by UberRusty

W/Mos are not bad. That's like saying Healers are bad. People who think W/Mos are bad are because they CHOOSE bad W/Mos. Why don't you go, get a bunch of PvP buddies, and ask one of them to W/Mo. I'm sure you'll have a great time.

And what kind of "Experienced Player" would make a statement such as; Swords do zero damage.

Why are you comparing a W/Mo to a healer? It's more like saying "R/W's are bad". If I was going to make a W/Mo, I'd use 7 warrior skills and a rez signet. But that's not a W/Mo, it's just a warrior. I still have yet to see you post on what makes a monk class a worthy secondary to use as a warrior.

Swords don't do zero damage, it's more like 26-30 damage with a galrath slash + final thrust combo every 12 hits. After seeing good axe warriors and hammer warriors, it really dosen't seem like much.

UberRusty · Sep 05, 2005, 02:03 AM // 02:03

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Why are you comparing a W/Mo to a healer? It's more like saying "R/W's are bad". If I was going to make a W/Mo, I'd use 7 warrior skills and a rez signet. But that's not a W/Mo, it's just a warrior. I still have yet to see you post on what makes a monk class a worthy secondary to use as a warrior.

I'm comparing it in terms of YOU saying that x/x is bad. Remember how people used to think Rangers sucked shit? Then came the Ranger prime time? Now Ranger builds are dying off a bit, but still used.

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Swords don't do zero damage,

Exactly my point.

Bast · Sep 05, 2005, 02:03 AM // 02:03

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Originally Posted by UberRusty

W/Mos are not bad. That's like saying Healers are bad. People who think W/Mos are bad are because they CHOOSE bad W/Mos. Why don't you go, get a bunch of PvP buddies, and ask one of them to W/Mo. I'm sure you'll have a great time.

And what kind of "Experienced Player" would make a statement such as; Swords do zero damage.

No, that's like saying Warriors that heal themselves are bad, which they are. The typical W/Mo does shit damage and everyone knows this because the Paladin build is, for lack of a better term, shit. Sword's only really good damage combo is Galrath+Final Thrust, and while strong in some situations, a lot of the time using it is wasteful because you won't get the full damage out of it. A warrior running Strength of Honor is okay though. Note the lack of self-healing.

The only time I'd even consider running a sword warrior in PVP is if the team build needed someplace to stick an elite other than the obvious choices for axe and hammer. Hamstring is okay, but there's way better and harder to counter snares out there.

And maybe the OP is running a Warrior primary because that's what he has, not some ridiculous gimped sword R/W with Apply Poison and a bunch of energy skills for "spamming." Get out of here.

UberRusty · Sep 05, 2005, 02:11 AM // 02:11

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No, that's like saying Warriors that heal themselves are bad, which they are. The typical W/Mo does shit damage and everyone knows this because the Paladin build is, for lack of a better term, shit.

LOL @ this. WHAT? Who said that I supported Mending W/Mos? Smiting W/Mos is what I support.

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And maybe the OP is running a Warrior primary because that's what he has, not some ridiculous gimped sword R/W with Apply Poison and a bunch of energy skills for "spamming." Get out of here.

LOL @ this. Have you even tried putting some thought into a GOOD R/W. And I know what you're thinking. "There is no good SWORD R/W."

xpuppetmaster · Sep 05, 2005, 02:18 AM // 02:18

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"There is no good SWORD R/W."

Yep thats right, there isn't and their aren't any good smiting w/mo other than those using only one skill, str and honor, which I already commented on. I can't comprehend how you actually thought when I said swords do zero damage you throuhgt I meant zero (as in -0). Are you a complete moron or what, of course they do some damage, but compare to an axe or hammer war their dam output is terrible and their attack speed doesn't make up for it. All you do is talk, why don't you post some builds to help out the OP. I'm not posting any because I don't there are any seriously good sword builds.

There are a few things when pvping I can look for and say yep, instant win. On that list is metor shower, firestorm, frag builds, w/r and r/w.

UberRusty · Sep 05, 2005, 02:47 AM // 02:47

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I can't comprehend how you actually thought when I said swords do zero damage you throuhgt I meant zero (as in -0).

Yes and when people tell me to piss off I actually go and try and urinate in the toilet.

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Are you a complete moron or what, of course they do some damage, but compare to an axe or hammer war their dam output is terrible and their attack speed doesn't make up for it.

Oh absolutely, I am a moron and I apologize for this. You are absolutely right, supreme leader. I will kiss your every word on the monitor, nevermind the radiation, and worship your every post in this forum.

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All you do is talk, why don't you post some builds to help out the OP. I'm not posting any because I don't there are any seriously good sword builds.

Actually, all all we do is type. What else do you think we do? Oh wait, that's right, get angry and flame each other. You guys can do that, I'll laugh my way through. And I've posted some good sword builds for PvE (not that you would take a look at what I've done, you're intent on flaming me) But not for PvP. Because I don't use swords in PvP for damage. I use them because others players's builds compliment my build.

smurfhunter · Sep 05, 2005, 02:55 AM // 02:55

ive been killed by a sword warrior plenty, and im not afraid to admit it. even the nooby ones with mending. what i think people are trying to get at is that other weapons are just that much better.

and yea i did see a warrior who had like 4/8 smiting skills (i was hit by smite, symbol of wrath, bane signet, etc) and although i dont think it was a completely fair 1-1 doppleganger style fight, yes i was owned.

does that mean sword/smite warriors are good? no, and it doesnt mean they suck.

the point i think is that any sword build can be switched to axe/hammer and be at least the same (usually better). and honestly, what do you mean by a sword warrior 'complimenting' another build... like what exactly is that supposed to mean? can you give me a brief example?

and if a warrior isnt supposed to do damage in pvp.. what is he suppoed to do... no one intentionally goes for them first anyway.... (im not counting some necro dumping spitefull on a warrior or something)

if you could clear up those points it would help alot, thanks

xpuppetmaster · Sep 05, 2005, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Maybe Spinal Shivers is what he means, but that is a complete waste of a character slot and probably would only work against newbie teams.

thekolman · Sep 05, 2005, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Swords don't do zero damage,

Exactly my point.

Way to distort (haha a gw connection!) the actual point of my paragraph. You'd make a good politician.

All I see here from you are lots of cute comeback one-liners and lots of "my W/Mo is a valuable player, seriously!", but no reasons backing that up. If it is some super secret build, don't worry I won't copy it.

The Red Griffin · Sep 05, 2005, 08:02 AM // 08:02

In my opinion, the reason people are having such a hard time accepting sword warriors as good spots in a pvp lineup is because, as people have said, you don't see enough good builds. I'm not saying there are, and I'm not saying there arn't. I wouldn't be surprised if there is one, just waiting to be found. But I have yet to see one, and I play a warrior primary. In all my experimenting, the reason I'd want a sword is to build up adrenaline for my stances. Although, I would not knock a cripple skill or somthing that would keep the enemy close by. I think no one has really, truely, tried to do a good pvp sword warrior, and kept with it for an amount of time.

Another reason is that Anet has gotten its priorities misaligned. Sure, swords work faster than anything else, but just not fast enough to make them better than the axes damage output. That, and the lack of power behind the sword skills make them almost obselete compared to other skills from axe or hammer. Anet tried to balance out the other classes, but they have made too many counters to warriors, and not enough things warriors can do to counter other classes without help from a secondary profession. At best, a warrior useing a sword can annoy someone with bleeding, deep wound, and cripple. Also as stated before, that doesn't mean too much to a healer.

Edit - Also, does apply poison work for poisoning your swords? If so, thats a good degen to throw up onto a monk or somthing. Just a thought.

Vusak · Sep 05, 2005, 01:37 PM // 13:37

W/Me 16 Sword 9 Strength 10 Domination (zealous haft and vampiric haft) for pvp
Hundred Blades
Savage Slash
Pure Strike
Hamstring
Frenzy
Sprint
Blackout
Resig

basically you just run around being smited off and ruin the day of a caster. given that blackout is total shutdown - best target would be a mesmer because they are the most likely to be able to circumvent other shutdown methods.

90% of the time when blackout finishes on your target they will cast something, so savage slash half a second after blackout drops. use the blackout down time to renew hamstring if needed, use pure strike for melee ward, renew frenzy, and use hundred blades in a group to get heaps of energy.

this will not work in a QZ environment though.

you could equally use flurry - as long as youre hitting to provide energy - the damage will add up over time.

also a good way to stop a ghostly hero from capping

point is you could NOT do this with an axe war - too many adrenaline requirements, and although it could be a nice hammer concept - it works a bit better with the faster hitting and hence energy buildup that a sword offers.

W/Mo 16 Axe 13 Strength 3 Healing (zealous axe)
Eviscerate
Axe Rake
Penetrating Blow
Disrupting Chop
Sprint
Frenzy/Flurry
Succor
Restore Life

succor a team monk, then continue as normal using predominantly adrenaline skills, rake is to help lower the usage of sprint, and allows frenzy usage to further offset the energy use.

depending on the setup it may or may not be useful to succor the prot monk, on one hand they might be doing bonds/barriers and they could use the extra energy pip meanwhile they dont cast much so it doesnt cost you much.

or it could be a more active guardian/rof etc. prot and you might find yourself low on energy if they are spamming a bit.

in the right tombs build (omg dont even bother with arena lol) either of these wars can find a useful part to play.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Sep 05, 2005, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Can we have one thread in this forum where it isnt a bunch of low self esteem geeks screaming about how build x/x is crap and then filling up the thread with childish fighting? Please?

smurfhunter · Sep 05, 2005, 07:21 PM // 19:21

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Originally Posted by Vusak

W/Me 16 Sword 9 Strength 10 Domination (zealous haft and vampiric haft) for pvp
Hundred Blades
Savage Slash
Pure Strike
Hamstring
Frenzy
Sprint
Blackout
Resig

basically you just run around being smited off and ruin the day of a caster. given that blackout is total shutdown - best target would be a mesmer because they are the most likely to be able to circumvent other shutdown methods.

90% of the time when blackout finishes on your target they will cast something, so savage slash half a second after blackout drops. use the blackout down time to renew hamstring if needed, use pure strike for melee ward, renew frenzy, and use hundred blades in a group to get heaps of energy.

this will not work in a QZ environment though.

you could equally use flurry - as long as youre hitting to provide energy - the damage will add up over time.

also a good way to stop a ghostly hero from capping

point is you could NOT do this with an axe war - too many adrenaline requirements, and although it could be a nice hammer concept - it works a bit better with the faster hitting and hence energy buildup that a sword offers.

W/Mo 16 Axe 13 Strength 3 Healing (zealous axe)
Eviscerate
Axe Rake
Penetrating Blow
Disrupting Chop
Sprint
Frenzy/Flurry
Succor
Restore Life

succor a team monk, then continue as normal using predominantly adrenaline skills, rake is to help lower the usage of sprint, and allows frenzy usage to further offset the energy use.

depending on the setup it may or may not be useful to succor the prot monk, on one hand they might be doing bonds/barriers and they could use the extra energy pip meanwhile they dont cast much so it doesnt cost you much.

or it could be a more active guardian/rof etc. prot and you might find yourself low on energy if they are spamming a bit.

in the right tombs build (omg dont even bother with arena lol) either of these wars can find a useful part to play.

i just dont see how this is better than a warrior/axe build that uses the same concept. more damage, eviscrate > hundred blades, axe rake = hamstring, disrupting chop = savage slash, exec strike ~ pure strike and the rest is the same. thats the big problem with swords, everything can be made better with another weapon.

and fyi apply poison + cyclone axe is the way people use it i believe. and yes it does work on a melee weapon

oh and yes you can do this with an axe warrior - you dont need the 'approved list' of attacks in one, heck i barely ever use penetrating blow or succor or whatever. i just dont really see why an axe "cant do it"

Wilymo · Sep 05, 2005, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Actually you got something wrong. Axe Rake < Hamstring. No argument there.

xpuppetmaster · Sep 05, 2005, 08:57 PM // 20:57

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Originally Posted by Wilymo

Actually you got something wrong. Axe Rake < Hamstring. No argument there.

Well actually, they both suck. Using cripple for a snare is a terrible idea just do the fact condition removal is cheap and any good team will have at least 1-2 people with it.

magmore · Sep 05, 2005, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Thanks for the constructive replies . Interesting community here

Thanks also to red griffon.
After reading these posts some things are clear.
A build is a lot of personal preference . TF verses frenzy ... tried em both and for me TF works best . I dont like thre double damage in the comp arenas . And I never need to use sprint at the same time as tf .
One stipd question though . When it sasys 25% faster movement does that increase attack speed as well? I am guessin no .
Maybe its because this isn't an off the shelf pvp build but a character played up from 0 . It is also clear that I need to go find some more skills .
A good sword build ? maybe this is it .
my guild is teaching me about gvg and we shall then truely see .
To bad there is no way to have a duel in this game.
ultimately all I wanted to know was str, tactics or sw and that was answered . take care all.
Thanks
My next post may be inteeresting .

UberRusty · Sep 05, 2005, 09:21 PM // 21:21

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Using cripple for a snare is a terrible idea just do the fact condition removal is cheap and any good team will have at least 1-2 people with it.

You really need to get your facts right. Not everybody uses JUST cripple for a snare. Smite teams = 1 second of person slowing down = Lots of damage.